AC option

[Brett Proctor]

Do you foresee any issues with the unit?

What issues are you thinking of??
Wiring is different from 2004 and up.

I found a FSM on line for a 2004 and the wire colors(and wiring) are different from what are on the one that I pulled which is out of a 2003 so I located a FSM for a 2002 and everything checks out.

I was planing on building a storage shelf behind the seats in my sebring. Something like this would fit under the shelf and give me heat as well. The heat in this system is just the blower going over a heated core right not like the Vw heaters?

Putting it behind the seats was my first option but I was also planning to build a cage behind the seats for mounting the seat belts to, but the blower was in the way so I looked at other places to mount the unit. Thats how I came to mounting it in the side pod

Heating is just your standard water style heater core.

Mock up behind the seats


Rear control panel. One thing I've learned with all of this is to grab as much of the wiring and hardware as possible




One thing I've found so far is that the blend door operates on a 5V system. This voltage comes from the front control panel so I'm going back to the junk yard and pull that and see if I can remove just that part of the system from the panel. One other thing to mention is the rear panel goes through the front panel before it reaches the rear AC/Heater unit so from what I can see is that the rear control only controls the blower speeds and temp. Selection of AC or Heat is done from the front controls. Just something to consider if going with the OEM stuff.

 

[RangerBEH]

Thanks for the great write up Brett. So if I understand correctly, the front panel of the hvac is also required to select the AC on? Are you planing on hiding that board behind your panel? I have a buddy that does circuit boards I wonder how big of a job coming up with a board that does the AC switch and the 5 volt feed would be....

 

[Brett Proctor]

Thanks for the great write up Brett. So if I understand correctly, the front panel of the hvac is also required to select the AC on? Are you planing on hiding that board behind your panel? I have a buddy that does circuit boards I wonder how big of a job coming up with a board that does the AC switch and the 5 volt feed would be....

Tonight when I get time I'll post the wiring for it so you can see how the system works.

I've been tring to figure out how the heater temp works because in the summer your not going to want the hot water going to the heat core. the only thing I can tell right now is you would need that aux water pump that pumps the water to the core and when the heater is turned off the pump stops pumping the water.
You could put in a shut off valve in the line I suppose like alot of companies use to control the heat.

To turn the system on and off I was thinking of using these switches that I found in a Mazda MPV. they would go through a relay to the AC or Heater, depending on which one is selected. Or I could go with a two way switch which sounds better



So I would have these two switches and then the control panel that I posted in my last post

 

[RangerBEH]

I am excited to see what you come up with. The hvac system is not my strong suit I'm going to be spending a lot of time on that and the radiator system, it's all new to me my buggys an air cooled convertible....

I knew there had to be a better way to tackle this system. the PO of my sebring installed an aftermarket AC in 92 and it takes up all the room under the dash. Removing that old system and relocating a newer one will give me room to have nice strait air vent runs and clean/neat/accessible wiring. That's the goal anyway.

Keep up the great work *rock on*
I greatly appreciate your efforts. *thumbs up*

 

[letterman7]

Ah, but the heater core always has coolant flowing through it, at least on all the cars I've owned. The "bypass" would be the control flaps for the air. Haven't you ever cooled an overheating engine by turning on the heater full blast in the summer? It's fun!

 

[Brett Proctor]

Ah, but the heater core always has coolant flowing through it

Not all vehicals do. Some use an inline valve operated by a cable or vacum servo to control the flow of coolant to the heater core.
This is out of a Honda

Haven't you ever cooled an overheating engine by turning on the heater full blast in the summer? It's fun!

Sounds like a good thing for myth busters to check out.
I've heard of that, but your not going to get me to turn on the heater in the middle of summer here. Plus I doubt if it would help any.

OK I did some reading in the FSM and found out that the reason that the rear controls are wired in with the front is so that you can adjust the back from the front so with that in mind I shouldn't need anything from the front, but I still need to check into the 5 volt thing for the rear blend door actuator.

Also read in the FSM, that as rick stated coolant runs through the heater core all the time so I shouldn't need the rear heater coolant pump.
It's looking good so far

The electrical diagrams for the AC/Heater system is about 14 pages long for just the wiring then there's more on the function and trouble shooting section in pdf format so unless you really want to see them I'll pass on posting that for now.

Cost of this in the pick a part yard was $50. I tried to get as much of the unit as possible because sometimes they'll throw some of the stuff in for free if your getting alot of items

One thing I should mention is if your putting this in the side pod of a sterling I'm not sure if it will clear the lower section because of that vent that is there. I'll get some measurements tomorrow on it.

 

[Peter]

Such a shame you guys don't have a Car Builder Solution in the States, here is what I would use. Very compact all in one unit.

Universal Compact Air Conditioning & Heater Kit - Car Builder Solutions - Kit Car Parts, Tools and Accessories

 

[Brett Proctor]

Such a shame you guys don't have a Car Builder Solution in the States, here is what I would use. Very compact all in one unit.

Universal Compact Air Conditioning & Heater Kit - Car Builder Solutions - Kit Car Parts, Tools and Accessories

Thats the glory of the internet. The problem is all of the hidden costs to get it here.
A while back I made the comment that we should get a group order together to offset the cost but there were no takers so it never happened.

I did some more reading in the manual and in the service part of the manual it states that the actuators are 12v so I don't know what the deal is. The wiring diagram says 5v source.
The good part is that all of the actuators(front and rear) in the system are interchangable.

I might go to the junk yard today and pull a front control panel just to play with and find out whats going on.

 

[Brett Proctor]

Just a thought *hmmm*

If the front control panel can control the rear AC/Heater unit then it may be best to pull the front panel and use that. That way I can use the defrost function also. All I'll have to do is pull an extra actuator and plumb that into the system to route the air to the defroster vent. My first idea for the defroster was to just tee off the heater duct but this way maybe better.

So far I haven't addressed the issue of getting outside air into the car. Its just been recirculation of the interior air.

 

[Peter]

Just a thought *hmmm*
So far I haven't addressed the issue of getting outside air into the car. Its just been recirculation of the interior air.

Just lay off the beans, *nothing to see*

*hmmm* Are the actuators on off types or stepper, I was wondering about 12v door locking actuators.*idea didn't work*

 

[Nic]

Brett, a desktop computer power supply has 2 out voltages, one is 12V the other is 5V. See if you can scrounge one up somewhere. I think RED is 12V and Yellow is 5V.

 

[Brett Proctor]

Brett, a desktop computer power supply has 2 out voltages, one is 12V the other is 5V. See if you can scrounge one up somewhere. I think RED is 12V and Yellow is 5V.

Thanks Nic

I got the front climate controls today so with that info from Nic and testing the circuits on the panel I should be able to figure out whats going on and what options I have.

Well I think I found the smallest heater ever today. It was in a toyota 4 runner and its located in the center console(thats right the center console). I didn't have anything with me to take a picture of it with, but I found this on the web of one.


I didn't know that the picture of the wiring was so small. I'll post something better later today.

Brett

 

[Peter]

Thanks Nic

I got the front climate controls today so with that info from Nic and testing the circuits on the panel I should be able to figure out whats going on and what options I have.

Well I think I found the smallest heater ever today. It was in a toyota 4 runner and its located in the center console(thats right the center console). I didn't have anything with me to take a picture of it with, but I found this on the web of one.
View attachment 4499

I didn't know that the picture of the wiring was so small. I'll post something better later today.

Brett

That is so neat, it would sit on the centre tunnel behind the console I'm sure, there is best part of foot and a half there.

 

[RangerBEH]

Now that's just a heater right? The size is awesome though! Wish that was an all in one! But nice if you stick with an under dash AC unit. Would make under dash wiring more fun...

 

[Brett Proctor]

Now that's just a heater right?

Yes just the heater(heat source is engine coolant)

If anyone is interested in the stuff I post and want more info on it let me know and the next time I go to the junk yard I'll see about getting it(if its still there)

OK I'm a day late but here's the wiring or at least some of it. Still tring to figure out the purpose of the logic circuit and if it can be bypassed(omitted). I did some searching on the internet and saw that some manufacturers put this in the actuator and not in the control panel but the one I saw had a 3 volt supply to it. I wonder if thats for putting just enough force on the flap to keep the opening sealed and so it wont strip the gears out in the actuator.
Anyone know??

As far as my thoughts on using the front controls for the system I would rather not. To many bells and whistles in it that I wont use.

 

[Peter]

I have a 12v to 3.3v 3A dropper on the way to hard wire the keyfob buttons for the doors, only $5
12V to 3.3V DC-DC Buck Converter Step Down Module Power Supply Voltage Regulator | eBay

 

[Brett Proctor]

I have a 12v to 3.3v 3A dropper on the way to hard wire the keyfob buttons for the doors, only $5
12V to 3.3V DC-DC Buck Converter Step Down Module Power Supply Voltage Regulator | eBay

Found this
CPT-C5 Power Converter 12V/24V Switch to 5V

After doing some research on them I found out that if it isn't rated for long term use it could over heat and shut itself off. I think this one is rated up to 85*C which should be more than enough for the temps we get here.

I'm thinking of taking the front control panel apart and see if the unit in there is removable or if it has the specs written on it some where.

I figure I'll need one(1) for each actuator I use.

 

[Peter]

I would have though 5A was more than enough for all at once, my door actuators only draw max' 3A.

85c! that is 185f, *eek!* I think at that temperature we would all have given up caring what was going on, *oh my* as 10 minuets +- at over 140f will begin to kill you, dead! *yipes*.

 

[Brett Proctor]

Don't know how many amps each actuator pulls so thats why I figured one for each

 

[Peter]

Going on all the hundreds I must have fitted over the years, I would average that out on 12v at 0.15A off load and a max of 2.3A fully loaded. Just moving a flap, about 1.5A
BUT! looking at the diagrams it seems the mixers are controlled directly from the logic not via a relay so that would mean a very low load at 5v.