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Beat up SS

farfegnubbin

Site Owner
Staff member
Hi Rick. Just now I sent some info to you on windshields in a private message. You can get to those by looking for an icon up top that looks like an envelope. It probably has a red and white number beside it showing that you have (at least) one message. đź‘Ť
 

4.9

New member
THANKS. See P/M reply. Rick

As for a Fiero donor, I have an 87 Fiero GT stripped that will be a parts donor to the 88 which is very complete. Putting my car on a VW pan will greatly enhance my chances of putting this body closer to the original dimensions & shape way before I do "any" hacking on the car or fiero donor. Some where's here I was reading a Fiero donor thread by a builder who seemed to be very on top of their project, I'll find it again.

Can't seem to make up my mind on the in-line V-8 straight drive or automatic V-8 Caddy 4.9 power train, which will determine the firewall I use. Dang.

Has anybody given thot or tried to mate a standard U-Joint half shaft to the modern C/V joint axle? Reason: my 63 Tempest T/A is old school & I may try to adapt the Corvair half shafts to the Fiero hub with disc brakes & strut suspension. I can mate the Corvair rear hubs to the already in place 88 hubs, add disc brakes w/ standard style coil springs or keep struct suspension. Thus the need to adapt the Corvair U=Joint half shafts to the C/V joint shafts which I think would be the easiest. Did any of this make sense? HOWEVER: If I go w/Caddy power train it is a simple weld-in unit to the custom tube frame. Gotta get a pic of the V-8 T/A set up which in reality may be too long to fit in The Cimbria tub!! dang again. Thoughts anyone?
 

farfegnubbin

Site Owner
Staff member
I think your idea of temporarily throwing the body onto a bug chassis is a good strategy. I know you were looking to make a “metal jig” to reestablish the body alignment. Towards that goal, nothing is better than the chassis the body was built for. Be careful if there is a lot of rot on the perimeter of the floor pan. You might not be able to trust it entirely. But it’s a sensible starting point.

Regarding engine configuration, obviously do what you want …but (of those options) I’d lean towards a transverse engine/trans like the 4.9 rather than a longitudinal set-up due to the space available. There’s really not enough space even for the transverse 4.9 but there’s really, really, really not enough space for a longitudinal set-up. And mathematically speaking, one “really not enough space” is better than three. 🙂 Plus…I’d personally like to see someone play around with the NorthStar (4.9) engine and transaxle. I’ve been quietly developing a new Sterling project for the last two years that has a significantly reconfigured engine compartment (and other neat stuff), and the NorthStar engine/transaxle is one of the top three contenders for drivetrain. (In actuality, I’d like the car to be adaptable to several engines, that being one.)

Going back a few posts, with regards to doors, again do what makes you happy, but don’t give up on the gull wings too quickly. My thought is only this: The coolest thing about these cars is how novel and exotic they look. The crazy canopies and doors contribute to that. Gull wings have a certain cool factor. The canopy has a certain insane quality. (Nobody has done a scissor door on a Cimbria yet to my knowledge. That might be an interesting variant.) Yeah, but normal doors? Those are for Hondas and other practical cars. 🙂

As for U-joints and CV joints, I have no direct knowledge. But honestly, I’m not sure they should be mixed and matched. On a CV joint the velocity of rotation is constant throughout a rotation. For a U-joint the rotation of the shaft lurches twice per rotation. If you’re mixing and matching, you’d be asking the shaft itself to absorb those lurches. This might make your shaft unhappy. In general, it’s good to keep one’s shaft happy.
 

4.9

New member
Well Sir. My fears are seemingly confirmed on all points. At best, I'm a shade tree mechanic, not no engineer! But really, thanks for your insight. Yep, the lurches in a U-joint are when the "X" changes direction, or the force on the "X" makes it lurch.

As for the gull wing doors, most definitely a cool "COOL" factor. But I don't have a lot of faith in the roof for strength even after I redo it w/2" sq. tube(just kidding). I've read a few build threads & don't see many folks tie the roof framing to the floor pan. And some mention flexing which leads to wind shield issues(breaking). Speaking of wind shields, I'll be buying one from Fuzz this Sunday.

On the longitudinal set up, that was(is) planned for a scratch built car although I could put it my Trike? Damn! Too many options/projects. And the wife wants me to get back on the 55 T-Bird!

As for the Northstar V-8 that was not a 4.9 but a 4.6 & they had head issues/over heating. None the less, sounds like a cool project. Better go, cutting into my beauty sleep.
 

farfegnubbin

Site Owner
Staff member
That’s fantastic that Fuzz was able to hook you up with a windscreen. You’ll enjoy meeting him.

Yep, you’re right regarding the size of the NorthStar engine. My bad. You had made a comment on the “4.9 Caddy drivetrain” at one point and I couldn’t remember the NorthStar’s displacement and thought you were referring to it.

You’re right that early NorthStars had head problems for the first three years or so. They then changed bolts and threads and ended up with a solid engine. A person just has to be careful of the year. It’s not a vastly powerful engine (about 275 HP) and isn’t perfect, but it is a nice transverse V8 mated to a perfectly matched transaxle…and the donors are currently in the “sweet spot” regarding age. (Meaning there are a ton of donors that have become cheap but aren’t totally beat.) The engine is actually only my third or fourth choice but I like the availability of it.

I was talking to my dad about the U-joint/CV question last night. He’s a retired dentist but also has an A&P rating as an aircraft mechanic. (Interesting guy!) But as he and I talked it out we had the same thought at the same time which is that a setup with a U-joint at both ends survives the intermittent torques in the shafts TIMES TWO and doesn’t immenently self-destruct so maybe that hybrid set-up could work. We think it will vibrate more than a pair of CV joints. I’d say find a shop that makes custom shafts and ask what they think. They’ll probably have more nuanced advice. Your set-up might work well enough to be pursued.
 

sector

Member
Not sure if you read my build, but I made a roof frame from 1"x1", 12 gauge tubing which was secured with a combination of 3m structural automotive epoxy, bolt through frame and roof skin, followed by encapsulating everything in fiberglass. The frame was also welded to round tubing inside the pillars. To test out strength of the roof, I setup a dial gauge to test flexure and got on top of the roof. The dial gauge did not budge. The best part is that tubular frame does not effect headroom as your head fits between channels like in delorean.
 

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sector

Member
Forgot to mention, I did something similar to the doors. I build a perimeter frame, secured in the same way. Now hinges will have solid attachment points for both roof and doors.
 

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sector

Member
Another option you might want to consider is butterfly doors. This setup also looks exotic and most of the weight is off the roof.
 

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letterman7

Honorary Admin
U-joint vs CV joint: I actually have some experience behind this, having a vintage RV that often has U-joints out of phase - very common in my type of coach. Anyway, "phase" is just a technical term to say that the axis' of both joints are not in line. Ideally, looking down the shaft, both joints should line up in respect to how they are mounted on the shaft. In some cases, one joint is slightly rotated and that produces a noticeable "jump" if the shaft is not parallel to the direction of travel. That can be mitigated somewhat by a CV on one end. You're still limited to the actual use angle back and forth - U joints are meant for straight lines, not angled in one direction fore or aft. Best bet is a CV on both ends. That will allow for a minor tweak fore and aft for transmission placement - but the more angle you add, the less joint life you have and it will also affect how the suspension reacts - and not in a good way.
 

farfegnubbin

Site Owner
Staff member
Thanks for posting/reposting those pics of your structural modifications, Sector. That’s nice documentation of nicely done reinforcement. That’s probably how they all should have been done.
 

4.9

New member
Houston!!! We have a Cimbria SS windshield!!! Weren't cheap but it's neat. For sure Fuzz is a neat individual, I was glad to meet him. The wind shield I bought was actually out of his last Cimbria, used to make the mold he has. So I'll make a cardboard template, transfer to thin plywood to use to re-establish the A pillars, etc. The driver's side has a short piece of re-bar, the pass. side none. The top front edge has none also. SOOOOO, the whole top will need to be redone using as much of it as I can. I've kinda figured to use the fiero top inner frame & keep it all welded together. I have no problem with chopping a Fiero frame seven ways from hell to make it fit. And certainly a complete sq. tube frame will support it all. So I may not have to cut up my last 88 Fiero just yet.

Now back to the drive train. I agree w/farfenubbin on using the Caddy 4.9 complete unit., clean, simple & straight forward. And no need for custom axles.

Sector; Thank you very much for your posts & pics. And no I haven't read your build thread-yet, but I can tell I need to. Again, thanks. I'm still not sure how I'll do the doors.

Does anyone have a "spare" Cimbria rear deck louvers for sale? Price, shipping? Thanks. Gotta crash, still got the gitters from being on the road for 12 hrs.
 

4.9

New member
Finally got the VW home, pics. After I get this on the steel pallet, everything except the front & rear cross over bulk heads? will be FREE to anyone. I just need the two pieces that hold the car in place. I'll use the pan(after some repair) for set up & alignment of my Cimbria. OOPS! The P/O wants the front wheels back! Know nothing of condition of drive train. #'s on block: 70004, #'s on carb base plate are zundfolge 1-4-3-z2(?). Also 83 stamped under fuel? pump. And a P stamped behind top pulley. Half shafts are fully independent. I plan to cut the front & rear off the pan section & run/weld 1" sq. tube around the side rails, use as a template mainly to maintain wheel base & get the body back in dimensions. Several sheets of notes, drawings & pics tell me this build will be more involved than I first figured, but I shall prevail. Got the wind shield safely encased in a wood frame w/ foam covered steel posts, well padded & stored vertically, all screwed to a plastic "X-beer pallet". So when I get what I want, the complete front suspension & complete rear end is free to whomever wants it.
 

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farfegnubbin

Site Owner
Staff member
That’s good progress. Nice of you to offer parts as well.

By any chance did it have a title? I’m wondering if you might be able to use some parts and that VIN for the rebuild.
 

4.9

New member
No Sir, no title w/VW. Have a clear title for my Cimbria. No disrespect, just not a big VW fan. So after more syfering I see where I could build the two main cross members & frame surround, not chop this up, offer it to another member-free. I would set my body on new frame, go from there, these projects are ever evolving, new ideas even this morning. The Fiero pass. tub will need much modifying. Thanks for getting me in touch w/Fuzz.
 

4.9

New member
Update. Finally got the Cimbria a clear(er) parking space, setting on blocks @ approximately ride height for show & tell. Tried to show body screwed to 2X6's, & how the body lined up much better. Screwed the doors to hold it tight. And yes, the pass. side A pillar broke off. Returned older VW frame to P/O as he just bought a 1949 Fiber Fab MG style kit car. Why the hell can't us old goats leave this old car junk to younger guys? That's right, most don't give a crap about saving nostalgic & collectable vehicles. Real surprise--wife actually likes the car & our goal! Did I make some progress folks?!? pics.
 

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letterman7

Honorary Admin
Absolutely! Now with the weather warming - keep it bolted down and in the sun while you do your fiberglass patchwork. Heat is your friend and will often "re-warp" panels back into place.
 
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4.9

New member
After looking @ the roof, I find no metal re-enforcement at all. As mentioned before a short piece of re-bar in the driver's side A pillar. And the door inner & outer panels are separated by @ < 1/16th". So there will be reworking needed to include relief cuts to pull panels together. The small dash is filled w/Stewart Warner gauges(speedo goes to 160), really? Fiero head light doors will work, pic.

Question: have others had to deal w/same problems? The roof for sure, your fix? As mentioned aways back, the caddy 4.9 will be a tight fit, but it WILL fit.
 

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4.9

New member
Yes. Same beat up SS. Dang, time does get away. Much more serious about the re-build. Working on getting more space for my new steel/cement floor, overhead crane & drive on ramps. Lots to do. In the delay, I'm doing lots of concept ideas, sourcing new door glass, head light options & doors. Sorta been doing work on my driver Fiero, new clutch system, gotta re-do the custom head lights, etc. Never ending stuff but enjoyable. Rick
 
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