Possible low profile radiator?

[ydeardorff]

I was looking around cool-iris at images for Fiat X19 and Porsche 914 radiators trying to find a sufficient sized radiator from a small car. I'm stumbled on this. which may be what many of us need.

This is a 1974 Fiat X1/9 radiator.
Does anyone know the actual measurements? I'm waiting for a response on this to find out.





I have been told by the people whom build custom radiators that a basic minimum rule of thumb for radiators to engines is 1 cubic inch per horsepower. So if your rad is 10 x 12 x 2" your cooling efficiency is worth 240 hp (if properly ducted, and working efficiently)

The 95-00 fiat Punto radiator measures out to 22"w x 11" x 2". (cooling for 484HP?)

That's a little on the wide side, but could be tucked under the headlight bays.

88-91 Toyota MR2 radiator is about the same size just a hair larger.

and the mini cooper radiator is 10" x 10" x 1.9" (so that according to the rule of thumb would be 190hp worth of cooling)

Again this is a minimum calculation " rule of thumb" someone whom makes radiators professionally has shared with me.

Im also playing with asking some more questions about using an inter cooler as a rad, as they are typically smaller that a rad. Just a thought though for now.

But hope this helps

 

[letterman7]

Wish I had seen that before I stuffed a semi-custom piece into the front of my car. I hadn't heard of the cubic inch per horsepower rule before, but I guess that makes sense. I went to look at a Ferrari 348 yesterday (for my brother, not me), and was surprised how small the rads were on either side of the car... but if memory serves there was one in the front, too. I think a better rule of thumb would be to match the overall size of the radiator to the donor vehicle, whether it's the same one or a custom built unit (or two smaller units matched to capacity). Of course, as stated, airflow and routing is paramount.

 

[ydeardorff]

I agree rick,
The engineers do over engineer stuff, but they added X numbers of extra square inches for a reason.

I think it would be a good idea to ensure you have that much at minimum. The trick is that will lead to a spendy custom built rad.

Ho- hum, as the saying goes, speed costs, how much you willing to spend? Thank god my wife doesn't know.

 

[ydeardorff]

I just found this, chewing through the summit online catalog.

AFCO Racing 80105N - AFCO Racing Scirocco Style Drag Racing Radiators - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Radiator, Universal, Scirocco, Aluminum, Natural, 21.5 in. Wide, 13.25 in. High, 3.0 in. Thick.

Those measurements looks very favorable! And only 256 dollars.

And according the cubic inch rule of thumb,.. thats what?, 854.6 HP worth of cooling? At least something like this wouldnt take up the whole nose when its canted forward.

seems using scirrocco rads is common amung many small car enthusiasts when upgrading to V-6's Im finding that alot on Fiat and other fan sites.

 

[letterman7]

That's close to what I have, just different layout (and cheaper) Griffin Thermal Products 1-26221-X - Griffin Aluminum Pro Series Radiators - Overview - SummitRacing.com

With that big hunk of iron turning, it got hot pretty quick. But it was sitting static, so I added a fan and the temperatures seemed to drop pretty quick. Rads that size take up more room than you think...and mine is even canted backwards slightly!

 

[ydeardorff]

yeah and those measurements are for the core only, not the rest of it. LOL its comes out to about 30 inches wide Im told.

And yeah rick everything seems to take more room than intended in these cars. But thats half the struggle, fun, is finding that "just right" part, and sharing the info with everyone!

I love that feeling and grin one gets when a new part takes its place in the car.

 

[JohnWatson]

I was looking around cool-iris at images for Fiat X19 and Porsche 914 radiators trying to find a sufficient sized radiator from a small car. I'm stumbled on this. which may be what many of us need.

This is a 1974 Fiat X1/9 radiator.
Does anyone know the actual measurements? I'm waiting for a response on this to find out.

View attachment 1041
View attachment 1040

Im not really sure about the measurement of that radiator. Did you say that this was customized?

 

[ydeardorff]

I have been asking alot of people about this subject as Im the type whom hates buying the wrong thing.

After some email exchanges, I have been informed that the rule of thumb for choosing a radiator is 1 x 1 x 1" per horsepower.

Now this measurement does not take into consideration extra cooling ability needed for an AC condensor, nor internal oil cooling. This would be for the Engine only.

A Fiat X19 radiator might be sufficient to cool an EJ22, or even an EJ25 being non turbo'ed.

But if your talking about larger, turbo'ed. or typically hotter running engines, the radiator must be sized accordingly.

But another big thing to think about as well is how effectively your radiator is getting air. Its placement and efficiencey is paramount. Even a 10 foot radiator placed in a closed box wont work.
Right?

To give an example. The WRX STI Turbo runs stock at about 300HP, yet its radiator is worth 768 HP according to this rule. So it cooling needs to be over twice what is needed, to compensate for the AC condensor being placed in front of the radiator, and its built in oil cooler in the radiator, on top of it cooling efficiency given its placement in the car.

Most exotic cars run a ram fed style system, but with a good sized exhaust for the hot air. So its fairly simple to say how the air can get into the radiator, but another thing to consider how it gets out.

I have found the scirrocco styled racing aluminum raditors a better choice for my WRX engine.
they are 24 x 12.5 x 3 inches and are aluminum which dissapates heat more efficiently than steel.
Something to think about.

 

[David201]

I think a better principle would be to go with the overall size of the rad to the contributor vehicle, whether it's the same one or a customized made unit (or two small models printed to capacity). Of course, as mentioned, circulation and redirecting is critical. . . . . . . .

 

[ydeardorff]

That's the trick, you cant. This car teaches you quickly just how small it is.

Now going with the idea of using "X" square inches as a base unit measure when determining the radiator is fine, and a good idea. If that's your meaning.


But, I have not found a single OEM radiator that would fit under the skin of this car.

 

[CyCo]

My radiator is a full sized unit stuffed up front in a butchered space under my 'hood'. And my front undersil is also butchered.

*whaah*

At the moment it's running that radiator up front, have an oil cooler behind the engine at the rear of the car, and under the drivers side upper air intake (passenger side to you lot), is the intercooler for the turbo. But that front radiator is going to get dumped in the next couple of years, and going to a twin radiator set up with them under the headlights, ala Porsche 911. So I'll have 4 'radiators', 5 if I go with a a/c install. Veyron, I'm looking at you. lol

 

[1/3RDOFF]

May I chime in?? My tho't is to use a fiero radiator to cool my 3.5 in my car. Just for giggles, the stock fiero rad will cool a stock caddy 4.9 w/no mods. & use the fiero a/c condenser. I do see a mod to the deck lid for heat extraction along with some very light gauge alum. sheeting for max draw. The stock fiero V-6 rad is two flutes thick, but I'd have to recheck the overall size for ya.

Hope I don't get banned for the word fiero. It will be my main donor car for many parts. Peace. Rick

 

[CyCo]

Forgot to mention that the twin radiator plan would involve either Mini radiators or custom radiators, linked in series. There are plenty of places down here that do custom radiators, so pricing shouldn't be too bad, as there's plenty of competition.

 

[letterman7]

May I chime in??

Of course! We love to see other ideas being investigated. While other builders have abjectly failed in using alternative platforms and drivetrains, it's always exciting to see if someone can make it work..!

 

[1/3RDOFF]

Here r some pics of a fiero radiator set in for show & tell. The angle is @ 45 degrees. It looks like I will have to remove the cove for the VW frame end to gain more room. Also, I was wrong on the flute count in modern day radiators. They all use only one flute/tube to carry the coolant now, @
least in the smaller cube motors.

 

[letterman7]

That's actually not bad. A little more lean and you wouldn't have to cut anything - just seal the edges and have it draw from underneath and exhaust out the top. Even with a small puller fan that looks like it would be a fairly sturdy install for a mild engine.

 

[CyCo]

Agreed, it looks pretty good. Not like my install. Also take note of where the bleed nipples are fr the radiator, so you can actually use them to drain the radiator, not like the one in mine (see above). *very frustrated*

If you seal up the area where the radiator is, and put a rear facing vent on the bonnet (ie, facing the windscreen), you should get some great airflow. Does your car have the area behind where the front number plate would be have open vents on either side? They should be good enough for air flow in from the front, and if you remove a portion of the front wall of the area where your radiator will be living, that should do it. It may help to fab up some channels between the front vents and the radiator to make sure the air goes to the radiator.

Here's the other photo of the area under my bonnet.

This is a simple fiberglass panel that just covers the above mess. It's still butchered under that black panel. And here's why I posted this second photo. With the addition of that panel, it changed the air flow under the car. When I bought the car, it had a couple of those little 'D' shaped ash trays that swivel out of the doors on older cars, located in front of the side/map pockets. Well with the addition of the black panel over the radiator, at freeway speeds those ash trays pop right out and land on the floor with the air pressure now going through the side pods!

You get the air vents/ducting right, and there will be plenty of air flow through that radiator.

 

[1/3RDOFF]

Hey Gang, trying to send some pics of my hood heat extractor, not sure what I've got. Bare with me please. Rick

 

[letterman7]

That looks familiar....

Lauren over at the Euro-Nova site actually cut her hood apart to put the "nostrils" upside down and swapped side to side (actually keeps the hood profile fairly close) to use as heat extractors. She says it works well, though her driven engine is only a small four cylinder.

 

[CyCo]

Doesn't Dave at SCC sell something similar?