rickjames8
Member
My side windows are fixed in place, but the sunroof comes out, so likely something I can do there.
Project Defi
- Thread starter rickjames8
- Start date
letterman7
Honorary Admin
Cargo straps with hooks. Hook at the front corners of the canopy near the windshield curve, and the other two wherever you can get them to grab at the back low corners (C-clamps will help here). Criss-cross the straps over the top of the canopy and lift from the center. That way, all the stress is distributed across the structure. Or... a 2x4 stuck inside and wedged against the firewall and the canopy top edge 
Just don't bump it.
Just don't bump it.rickjames8
Member
So I yanked the windows today. I wasn't going to get that much in to this project right now, but I couldn't see a really good way to hold the roof up without taking out the windows. And it was on the someday list anyway. So that's done.
The new starter (T3 - Auto) arrived the other day, but a friend was visiting, so I haven't had a chance to try it. I'd put the rear tire back on so I could roll the car and put the straps up. I'm kinda focused on getting the canopy working first, as I don't like not being able to get in the car without a second person around.
The new starter (T3 - Auto) arrived the other day, but a friend was visiting, so I haven't had a chance to try it. I'd put the rear tire back on so I could roll the car and put the straps up. I'm kinda focused on getting the canopy working first, as I don't like not being able to get in the car without a second person around.
rickjames8
Member
I got the T3 starter installed, and it turns over!! This means I must have a 12v flywheel and my 6v starter wasn't starting it. However, it seems to be stuck in gear. The clutch pedal is disconnected, so I've got to remove the other wheel and get to the clutch and engage it manually. Plus, my shifter was broken, so I've got to install the new one so that I can shift it once I get the clutch engaged.
I also removed the hinge on one side. I think I'll do the one side at a time so that the roof isn't just floating in mid-air. Seems it would be easier to manage that way.
By the way, the bolts holding the arms on were fully threaded, meaning the arms were pivoting over threads. The bolts looked surprisingly ok (no noticable wear). I'd planned on using partially threaded bolts so that the arm pivoted on a smooth surface (with a lot of grease). Is that was folks normally do? Later I wondered if the threads decreased the contact area and made it move easier?? I really like Bretts bearing idea, but I don't have the time/tools to make that modification.
I also removed the hinge on one side. I think I'll do the one side at a time so that the roof isn't just floating in mid-air. Seems it would be easier to manage that way.
By the way, the bolts holding the arms on were fully threaded, meaning the arms were pivoting over threads. The bolts looked surprisingly ok (no noticable wear). I'd planned on using partially threaded bolts so that the arm pivoted on a smooth surface (with a lot of grease). Is that was folks normally do? Later I wondered if the threads decreased the contact area and made it move easier?? I really like Bretts bearing idea, but I don't have the time/tools to make that modification.
The issue of needle bearings comes up from time to time. My thoughts are that it’s important to have some sort of well-fitting bushing so there isn’t a lot of play in the system. Most Sterlings had/have nylon bushings. Some builders might have upgraded to brass. It would certainly be cool to have a way to add grease to them but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Sterling with such fittings.
As for needle bearings, they would certainly work and would give some cool bragging rights but I can’t convince myself they would add anything meaningful. Needle bearings are meant for systems that are going to spin fast or spin several hundreds of thousands if not millions of times. I don’t know about you but if I cycle my canopy ten times in a year it’s been a good year.
I’ve never heard a canopy squeak. I’ve never heard of one binding or getting stuck at the hinge pivots. I know of a lot of Sterlings for which the canopy looks “ricketty” opening and closing due to sloppy or missing bushings.
From an engineering perspective the best modification to do would be to make the tubes of the pivots wider (ie, to accept longer bolts) in order to absorb side-to-side forces better. But I’ve never seen that done. Which brings us back around to the original thought of “just make sure the pivots have bushings that don’t have lots of play” and you should be good.
If I were re-engineering the canopy hinges from scratch I’d make them wider at the lower pivots and beef up the lower plate a bit. Arguably, it’d be overkill doing so.
I really love seeing you making progress.
As for needle bearings, they would certainly work and would give some cool bragging rights but I can’t convince myself they would add anything meaningful. Needle bearings are meant for systems that are going to spin fast or spin several hundreds of thousands if not millions of times. I don’t know about you but if I cycle my canopy ten times in a year it’s been a good year.
I’ve never heard a canopy squeak. I’ve never heard of one binding or getting stuck at the hinge pivots. I know of a lot of Sterlings for which the canopy looks “ricketty” opening and closing due to sloppy or missing bushings.
From an engineering perspective the best modification to do would be to make the tubes of the pivots wider (ie, to accept longer bolts) in order to absorb side-to-side forces better. But I’ve never seen that done. Which brings us back around to the original thought of “just make sure the pivots have bushings that don’t have lots of play” and you should be good.
If I were re-engineering the canopy hinges from scratch I’d make them wider at the lower pivots and beef up the lower plate a bit. Arguably, it’d be overkill doing so.
I really love seeing you making progress.
letterman7
Honorary Admin
Hi Rick! Cool - progress is progress, no matter what. You can check the transmission coupling under the access plate behind the seats and see if you can get a grip on the shift rod / cage connection to the nosecone and manually pull/push it in and out of gear. You can put a big C clamp over the clutch lever arm to pull it back (it doesn't need to go far) or have your boy push it back with a broomstick until you get the shift rod into neutral. As for the hinges.. I'm in the camp that simple is better. My cars all had nylon bushings - and some had all-thread bolts through those bushings. If you can find nylon or bronze bushings to fit into the arms, you can drop the diameter of the bolt and move to a graded bolt for the strength. There's no shear force involved since all the weight and force is being directed to the steel support framing.
rickjames8
Member
Sorry for the delays in the replies. I was on vacation, and being the old fart that I am, I refuse to type anything longer than 'ok' on a phone keyboard.
Not much progress due to the aforementioned vacay, but I did get my saw table set up before going. Will need that to cut out my new pieces. It's just a cheap jig saw flipped upside down and mounted on wood. I'm going to try to find a drill press too. Been wanting one for ages anyway.
Yep, I've got nylon bushings - and it seems Rick is in this camp too. Thanks for the thoughts on needle bearings. I was just wondering if it would give a smoother movement. But it sounds like not, and if so, a minimal improvement (if any) for a lot of work.
Good to know. The only issue I had in my former car was stopping at full open. The hydraulics might have been from a forklift or something, as it opened it 2-3 seconds, violently thrusting the canopy forward. When it abruptly met the end of the travel, the whole car shook forward a bit.
Cool. Beefing up the lower ones is what I'm doing. Not because I want beefier, but because the old ones are all bent up (somehow) so if I've got to rebuild them, it doesn't really ass much effort to use thicket metal.
Will do that.
Not much progress due to the aforementioned vacay, but I did get my saw table set up before going. Will need that to cut out my new pieces. It's just a cheap jig saw flipped upside down and mounted on wood. I'm going to try to find a drill press too. Been wanting one for ages anyway.
Brett Proctor
Well-known member
Sounds like you've made your mind up on using bushings so if your going that route I would suggest using Oilite Bronze Bushings.
Oilite is a porous bronze or iron alloy commonly impregnated with an oil lubricant and used in bearings.
Oilite is a porous bronze or iron alloy commonly impregnated with an oil lubricant and used in bearings.
nbb350
Active member
It's been so long since I rebuilt my hinges, but I did like Brett suggested and used oiled bronze bushings. bushing has a shoulder on one side to keep it from slipping thru the bracket. Bushing length is slightly longer than the bracket out-to-out, so it just needs a washer on the other side; I think i drilled out the washer ID to exactly match the bushing OD. I think I used nylocs on the hinge arms to keep them "tight enough", but not "too tight" to prevent movement. But that was YEARS ago...
rickjames8
Member
Things have been moving ahead at warp speed on my house renovations, which has left very little car time. I did get some pieces cut for the new hinges, but I've yet to weld them together and drill them. So just a quick little note to say that the car is not forgotten, just not moving much at the moment.
letterman7
Honorary Admin
Dude... I've got a car that's been sitting for 15 years I haven't had time on....
rickjames8
Member
Ha! Ok, I guess it's all relative then. I did get my pieces welded tonight, but that required me to put on long pants, which left my phone(+camera) in my shorts, so no photos. But I'm happy with how they came out. My welding is typically pretty terrible, but these ones came out ok.
rickjames8
Member
Ok. This is going to be long. I ended up spending a ton of time on these hinges, and I might not even use them. So, I got the pieces welded, then borrowed a drill press to drill them out straight, and got them looking ok (still need sanding and some filler). For the channel part I used 1.5mm steel (a square tube with one side cut off) and for the flap that sticks down, I used 3mm. I wanted to make sure that didn't flex at all. I would have been ok with 1.5 or 2mm, but I used scraps a friend gave me which were 3mm. I figured the stronger, the better.
I built both right and left hinges at the same time, but I've left the old drivers side one connected. I figured taking both of them off at the same time would let the canopy swing too freely, and might be hard to get the arms back in the hinges. So I decided to do them one side at a time, starting with the passenger side.
I did a test fit of the passenger side hinge, testing that the arms bolt nicely in to the lower hinge part, and they did, so I removed the arms and then attached the hinge to the car. That's where everything started to go wrong. The front arm went in ok, but the back arm appeared twisted. I held it straight to my eye (like you'd check a piece of lumber) and it looked like the bottom hole was not parallel with the top. It seemed 5-10% off, as if the bar had been able to twist somehow. I doubt that variance is not normal, is it? You can sort of see it here.
The car was jacked up on the rear passenger side from me doing starter work, and I thought maybe that's twisting the car, so I put it down. No change. I thought maybe my straps holding the canopy had twisted, so I tried various movements of swinging/moving the canopy, but nothing worked. Then I removed the front arm and thought I'd try to put the rear arm in first. It went in, but then the front one wouldn't go. It was closer than the back was, but the bolt still wasn't going to go through. So then I pulled both arms, and disconnected the lower hinge from the body. Then I rebolted the arms on (they fit and glide really smooth) and tried to mount the hinge back to the car with the arms connected. The angle is really noticable.
No amount of pushing, turning, twisting gets it anywhere near where it needs to be. So I took the whole thing out and compared the old to the new. The old hinge is made of very thin metal (my main driver for replacing it). But it seems that thin-ness allows it to flex a bit, so the flap that goes down in to the body can flex. My 3mm metal does not flex, and it appears as though the tub that flap sits in comes out towards the bottom, ever so slightly. Looking at the old hinge confirms this slight bend. So my thick metal (which is welded at 90 degrees to the tube) is forcing my square tube to sort of rotate top-outwards a few degrees, and I think that's what's causing this. I have no solution to fix it, as I can't bend my 3mm metal flap.
I re-installed the old hinge to see if it still fit nice, and it does. It just looks awful, it's really bent, and feels flimsy to me. But I might just use it anyway.
Unless anyone has any ideas on how I can salvage these new ones I made, I might just try to clean up and strengthen the old ones and use them. Or if there is something obvious I'm overlooking with the install?
I built both right and left hinges at the same time, but I've left the old drivers side one connected. I figured taking both of them off at the same time would let the canopy swing too freely, and might be hard to get the arms back in the hinges. So I decided to do them one side at a time, starting with the passenger side.
I did a test fit of the passenger side hinge, testing that the arms bolt nicely in to the lower hinge part, and they did, so I removed the arms and then attached the hinge to the car. That's where everything started to go wrong. The front arm went in ok, but the back arm appeared twisted. I held it straight to my eye (like you'd check a piece of lumber) and it looked like the bottom hole was not parallel with the top. It seemed 5-10% off, as if the bar had been able to twist somehow. I doubt that variance is not normal, is it? You can sort of see it here.
The car was jacked up on the rear passenger side from me doing starter work, and I thought maybe that's twisting the car, so I put it down. No change. I thought maybe my straps holding the canopy had twisted, so I tried various movements of swinging/moving the canopy, but nothing worked. Then I removed the front arm and thought I'd try to put the rear arm in first. It went in, but then the front one wouldn't go. It was closer than the back was, but the bolt still wasn't going to go through. So then I pulled both arms, and disconnected the lower hinge from the body. Then I rebolted the arms on (they fit and glide really smooth) and tried to mount the hinge back to the car with the arms connected. The angle is really noticable.
No amount of pushing, turning, twisting gets it anywhere near where it needs to be. So I took the whole thing out and compared the old to the new. The old hinge is made of very thin metal (my main driver for replacing it). But it seems that thin-ness allows it to flex a bit, so the flap that goes down in to the body can flex. My 3mm metal does not flex, and it appears as though the tub that flap sits in comes out towards the bottom, ever so slightly. Looking at the old hinge confirms this slight bend. So my thick metal (which is welded at 90 degrees to the tube) is forcing my square tube to sort of rotate top-outwards a few degrees, and I think that's what's causing this. I have no solution to fix it, as I can't bend my 3mm metal flap.
I re-installed the old hinge to see if it still fit nice, and it does. It just looks awful, it's really bent, and feels flimsy to me. But I might just use it anyway.
Unless anyone has any ideas on how I can salvage these new ones I made, I might just try to clean up and strengthen the old ones and use them. Or if there is something obvious I'm overlooking with the install?
letterman7
Honorary Admin
Hmm.. so it's the 'flap' that's keeping it from sitting correctly? Unless you're going to use it to mount your push rams (which was their initial design intention, as well as some extra support) cut 'em off. None of my cars had that flap. What I did do was make a mating plate to go underneath the fiberglass sill to make a "sandwich" of the fiberglass when bolting down the top hinge plate. Easy enough to do and makes a nice solid connection.
rickjames8
Member
Interesting. Got any photos? Yes, my plan was to anchor the pistons to that plate. I thought given the stresses involved, I'd want those two pieces connected (just as they are with the old hinges).
I also made a mating plate to go behind the fiberglass for the current hinges. The previous owner had used large washers, but it seemed that the mounting plate gave more support, and it was super easy to just grab a piece of metal and drill corresponding holes.
Now I'm wondering if I cut off the flaps, install the hinge part, then put the flap back in place (but with the required angle) and then do a quick tack weld and remove and fully weld? Or is this over complicating things for no good reason? Do I just cut the flaps, and mount them by themselves?
letterman7
Honorary Admin
I'll try to grab a photo in a day or two. My car is on a lift and takes a bit to get to. And my hinges aren't mounted yet, but You'll get the idea. My rams were always mounted with a mount fabbed to match the end of the ram, whether it was attached to the fiberglass wall or the bottom of the pocket. Design varied according to the ram design.
nbb350
Active member
I think this is a good idea to acquire the best fit.
Another idea you could try would be to bend the flaps as needed. Maybe take a piece of thin cardboard (like a cereal box) and trim it by hand to perfectly follow the curve of the fiberglass where the flap is going. Then bend the flap little by little until it matches. How to bend it depends on the tools you have at hand. A BIG hammer against a 2x6 pine board may work. Heat applied to the metal flap would help. Or clamping the flap in a bench-mounted vise and bending incrementally.
I wonder if early Corvettes had the asymmetry problems that kit cars have...but you're discovering them firsthand. I bet the driver/passenger sides will have Different Angles to that lower flap as well.