So you want to do a Subaru Engine Swap?

[ydeardorff]

Also, realize Brett is using a VW tranny in his build.
Using a Subaru transmission will raise up the entire engine by about 2 inches.

Here is an older twin turbo auction someone sent me the link to on ebay.

JDM Subaru Legacy EJ20 Twin Turbo Engine 5 Speed Transmission | eBay

It looks to be a late 90's EJ20 twin turbo engine and 5 speed transmission. There is no ECU or wiring for the ECU, but that should be fairly easy to find.
For a 50K mile motor and transmission this is a pretty good deal!

 

[islandman]

Let me know if you need more or something at a different angle. Wire rod in some of the pictures was to try and give you an idea of clearance but I don't think it worked out to well.

Thanks Brett these are extremely useful to help me plan and visualise. *thumbs up*

Looking at your photos and the slight additional clearance you may need doing an engine cover in a similar style to the one I did for my Alfa engine may work for you (obviously design is a personal taste). It gave me extra clearance although it wasn't really needed with the Alfa engine. The opening would need to be wider but the approach of removing the dip in the current cover would give you that clearance.





Detailed explanation of what I did and shots here

Making the new engine cover - David Skinner's Nova KitCAR

 

[islandman]

Also, realize Brett is using a VW tranny in his build.
Using a Subaru transmission will raise up the entire engine by about 2 inches.

Here is an older twin turbo auction someone sent me the link to on ebay.

Thanks for the info,but I'm staying away from Turbo's (I don't want to end up sideways in the car with the extra power and don't want the extra plumbing etc.

I didn't realize that the Subarugears tranny results in it being 2 inches higher They do talk about 2 different positions on their Subaru mount kit "For beetle builds with quad cam engines only, use the upper mounting hole to have your driveline at a lowered height" so I thought that would bring it lower (but then ground clearance issues increase, needing a much shortened sump.)

 

[ydeardorff]

don't want the extra plumbing etc.

-confused*-confused* Extra Plumbing?-confused*-confused*

Sideways, is all about you and your foot. Less is more here*laugh*.

The suba-mounts even in the lower position are still 2 inches higher than a vw tranny install.

 

[islandman]

Turbos, vacuum chambers, inter coolers etc..

 

[ydeardorff]

Turbos, vacuum chambers, inter coolers etc..

Nothing like that on my 05 model. just a 4 into 1 header, turbo and downpipe.
The intercooler is mounted directly to the intake. So there are very few things to deal with (at least in the US version).
Ive seen the older UK double turbo engines that had all sorts of crap on them. The 2000 through 2005 models were very simplified.

The NA engines still have effectively up to 6 times the original bugs hp (depending on engine). So that will be plenty of fun too*thumbs up*

 

[Brett Proctor]

Yes taking that dip out would give me the clearance I need to clear everything.
I'll keep that in mind when I get to building the cover

Thanks
Brett

Thanks Brett these are extremely useful to help me plan and visualise. *thumbs up*

Looking at your photos and the slight additional clearance you may need doing an engine cover in a similar style to the one I did for my Alfa engine may work for you (obviously design is a personal taste). It gave me extra clearance although it wasn't really needed with the Alfa engine. The opening would need to be wider but the approach of removing the dip in the current cover would give you that clearance.





Detailed explanation of what I did and shots here

Making the new engine cover - David Skinner's Nova KitCAR

 

[islandman]

So my donor car dilemma and hunt continues.

I have found another Subaru Legacy donor and I thought it ticked all the boxes. Year 2000 (no CAN Bus) 2.5L, manual transmission, aircon, full service history with lots of receipts, dashboard in good condition. However I was surprised to find that it was a DOHC rather than SOHC (other 2.5L autos I have seen were SOHC).

So my concern from being a DOHC is as follows (these are assumptions and intuition – based on photos as much as anything) :-

1) The heads are bigger, meaning the exhaust ports sit lower on the engine block compared to the SOHC. Resulting is lower exhaust and more of a challenge to hide everything behind the cars rear end.
2) The lowest point being the sump is probably the same, but with a number of options on shortening the sump depth means that the exhaust may then become the lowest point in the DOHC.
3) The DOHC air intakes also seem to sit higher than the (SOHC again from photos). Brett is this why you combined a 2.2 air intake to your DOHC engine, and were there any issues you had to address?

Any comments confirming or refuting my impressions or other considerations greatly appreciated.

 

[islandman]

Subaru Dealer Legacy Workshop Manuals

In my hunt for a donor car I came across an advert on eBay for a complete set of Subaru Dealer Legacy Workshop Manuals. Now having heard from many people that wiring diagrams for Subaru’s are hard to find and seeing these manuals had them as part of the set I put in my bid and won!

So I am now the lucky owner of dealer manuals, which hopefully will save me trouble shooting issues down the line and pay for themselves in the long run *thumbs up*

 

[ydeardorff]

What years/models do they cover?

I guess you missed this post? http://www.sterlingkitcars.com/memb...cal-issues/1532-subaru-manuals.html#post17144

Subaru manuals-subaru-manuals.jpg

As far as dual cam or single cam engines. Ive had both. To me the dual cam engine is preferred. are the head wider, yes, but only very slightly. Perhaps an inch difference? If you are going to use a VW tranny look at bretts build, otherwise using a subaru transmission will raise the engine 2 inches higher than in bretts build.
Either way, SOHC, or DOHC youll run into ground clearance issues like everyone does. But this usually is from the oil pan, not the exhaust.
Ill let brett chime in here....

 

[islandman]

Set of Subaru Legacy dealer workshop manuals
Covering 1994-2001 RHD cars (i.e. UK Models)
covering engines, transmission, wiring, bodywork, mechanicals
approx 46 manuals


Didn't miss the other post, but UK and US models do have differences

 

[ydeardorff]

Well good score!
I looked back at my collection, and it appears there are EDM manuals too, but there may not be as many.
Whatever you decide, youll love it!

Also, remember though, Todd Treiblers info is based upon mounting these engines into a bug not a kit car. So some of his info doesnt apply.
Case in point, the mounting holes on the mount,... We can use either, regardless of the engine type. For us its all about fitting it under the body not a beetle body.

 

[Brett Proctor]

So my donor car dilemma and hunt continues.

I have found another Subaru Legacy donor and I thought it ticked all the boxes. Year 2000 (no CAN Bus) 2.5L, manual transmission, aircon, full service history with lots of receipts, dashboard in good condition. However I was surprised to find that it was a DOHC rather than SOHC (other 2.5L autos I have seen were SOHC).

So my concern from being a DOHC is as follows (these are assumptions and intuition – based on photos as much as anything) :-

1) The heads are bigger, meaning the exhaust ports sit lower on the engine block compared to the SOHC. Resulting is lower exhaust and more of a challenge to hide everything behind the cars rear end.
2) The lowest point being the sump is probably the same, but with a number of options on shortening the sump depth means that the exhaust may then become the lowest point in the DOHC.
3) The DOHC air intakes also seem to sit higher than the (SOHC again from photos). Brett is this why you combined a 2.2 air intake to your DOHC engine, and were there any issues you had to address?

Any comments confirming or refuting my impressions or other considerations greatly appreciated.

3) The DOHC air intakes also seem to sit higher than the (SOHC again from photos). Brett is this why you combined a 2.2 air intake to your DOHC engine, and were there any issues you had to address?

The reason I went with that intake is because it positioned the airfilter in the perfect spot without having to make any adjustments.
It bolted right on, the fit was perfect and it had all the connections I need for the vents from the crank case and valve covers. So I retained the OEM setup on the breather vents

This is the place where I got my low profile oil pan from
Price has sure gone up
https://smallcar.com/vanagon/subaru...arts/subaru-vanagon-5qt-aluminum-oil-pan.html

If your using the subaru trans and Yaughns comments on it sitting 2"(51mm)higher than my setup then you should be ok on ground clearance.

If you need pictures of around the heads let me know.

 

[islandman]

Brett, no need for head photos thanks,

But Yaughn I would like to see photos your engine bay access with the motor mounted 2 inches higher if possible? because if its higher are you not then posed with another problem of everything sticking out the top requiring a engine lid with a hump to accommodate the intake ?

 

[ydeardorff]

that is a possibility,...
I am very close to making that decision now. If I get the motor and transmission in, Ill show it in the two locations if possible. I want to mount it in the upper mounting holes if possible.
But the intercooler might force me to mount it lower.
But like todd said. "Even mounted in the lower mount position, it sits two inches higher than using the vw transmission."

 

[Brett Proctor]

[quote3) The DOHC air intakes also seem to sit higher than the (SOHC again from photos).][/quote]

I don't know if that is entirely true. Both intakes sit over the case, and I think the profile of the cases are the same at the center. Only where the heads bolt to the case have changed.
Now there may be a difference in the intake manifold that may make a difference in height. I have seen different types bolted to the engines

If you would like I could get some measurements from a EJ25 SOHC engine next time I go to the yards here. Just let me know where you want them from

 

[islandman]

[quote3) The DOHC air intakes also seem to sit higher than the (SOHC again from photos).]

I don't know if that is entirely true. Both intakes sit over the case, and I think the profile of the cases are the same at the center. Only where the heads bolt to the case have changed.
Now there may be a difference in the intake manifold that may make a difference in height. I have seen different types bolted to the engines

If you would like I could get some measurements from a EJ25 SOHC engine next time I go to the yards here. Just let me know where you want them from[/QUOTE]

Yes it was the intake height I was looking at, some do seem different. Anyway after a long chat with the guys at Fellows Speedshop in the UK I have decided to go for a 2.0L engine instead for a variety of reasons. This will make my donor search so much easier as there are tons of these about

 

[islandman]

[/COLOR]
I don't know if that is entirely true. Both intakes sit over the case, and I think the profile of the cases are the same at the center. Only where the heads bolt to the case have changed.
Now there may be a difference in the intake manifold that may make a difference in height. I have seen different types bolted to the engines

If you would like I could get some measurements from a EJ25 SOHC engine next time I go to the yards here. Just let me know where you want them from

[/QUOTE]


Yes it was the intake height I was looking at, some do seem different. Anyway after a long chat with the guys at Fellows Speedshop in the UK I have decided to go for a 2.0L engine instead for a variety of reasons. This will make my donor search so much easier as there are tons of these about

 

[Brett Proctor]

Well your making progress.

You want a SOHC engine and you don't want the years that had that air pump on it.

So what years does that narrow it down to?

 

[islandman]

Well your making progress.

You want a SOHC engine and you don't want the years that had that air pump on it.

So what years does that narrow it down to?

In the UK that would be 2.0L Subaru Legacys from 2000 - 2003, and some 2004 but they seem to have the new style air intake, drive by wire and the new dashboards and gauges